4-15-07

The following are additional e-mails AGAINST
WTP's questions regarding U.S./Israeli policy.

Sender identifying information has been redacted.
Letters appear as they were submitted.

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 2:16 AM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Anti-Semitism 

Bob;

I can't believe that you are buying this bullshit from jimmy carter and these "professors" who are clearly anti-semites.

Are you an anti-Semite? Are a lot of "our" fellow gml members? I hope not, cause if you are you are going to lose a great deal of support for the cause, which, if you will recall is TAX REFORM, and the outing of the criminals in washington (and most other politicians located everywhere). All of what you/we have done UP TO NOW, I have strongly suppported, but attacking the jews is NOT something I and many others will tolerate. I am not jewish, but Israel is our only REAL ALLY on this planet. All other nations are in it for what they can get from us.

I await your reply

Brian 

Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:22 AM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Taxation

Dear Bob Schulz,

I believe you are straying too far from our original intent of proving the U.S. Tax system is unjustly applied to people who are not legally required to pay taxes. You and I may share the belief that many or our international problems in the U.S. are centered around our strong support of Israel.  But this is certainly not the venue to address it. This is a distraction that will dilute our original intent and lose much needed support as well.

I beg of you to cease.

Sincerely,

Henry

Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:33 AM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject:

I am no longer a supporter of WTP because of your stance against Israel. I have removed both of my email addresses from subscription to the newsletter. 

David  

Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 1:25 PM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: 2007 GML conference

Bob Shulz,

I read your posting on the invitation to the AIPAC, Palestinians and US Gov't to the subject conference. In the posting, you asked a number of well-thought out questions including the following:

"Isn’t it true that God promised to restore to His Grace the spiritual descendents of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel (not just the racial descendents of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin)?"

Although I agree with most all of what you said otherwise, I believe it would be to your credit if you would rethink this most provocative question. I find no Biblical reference for your usage of the term "spiritual descendants of the twelve tribes". This reference has been created out of whole cloth by someone trying to mingle the "tares with the wheat" and using false biblical doctrine to do it. I invite you to prove me wrong. Until you do so, I am afraid the answer to your question is "NO."

Donald

Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 3:52 PM

To: bob@givemeliberty.org

Subject: Professors and Carter 

Bob,

The professors and Carter are so far in left field I am surprise you do not see it. Also you are jeopardizing the first and foremost reason for the fight, the IRS. This side track is causing a lost of focus on the reason myself and others have followed you.  Please let it go. Carter's book should not even be mentioned on the same page with the liberty movement.  I am quite surprised at this whole affair. If it continues I will have to remove myself as a patron of "GiveMeLiberty" 

Marc  

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:26 AM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: My donations & the Israeli lobby

Donations ~ I signed up in December for an automatic monthly bank draft to support WTP for $25 a month. It happened once - WTP missed January, February, and March...
What happened ?!   I can't support WTP very well if my donations aren't taken !

Israel - Even from merely a marketing standpoint, I am concerned about what WTP is doing, now adding the whole theme of taking on US support for the Israeli lobby.  That stuff ought to be looked into - BUT - is this something that WTP ought to be doing ?  Aren't others already doing this, and have a longer running head start, and are as effective as anyone can be on this issue ??  And then what's next, UFO's ?  the  "911 Truth" angle ?

You risk much, not merely from needlessly ticking WTP supporters off about their beliefs, however those may be based on this issue, but more importantly you risk blunting and marginalizing WTP from DILUTING the force and effectiveness of the REAL mission and focus, the activities and effectiveness of WTP - you are simply trying to take on way too many fronts. 

Yes, you can attract attention, members, interest, etc. by going after other subjects - but in the process you lose organizational focus, you destroy organizational momentum - AND you lose the interest and support of those who were attracted by last year's topic, and the one before that - and would thus doom WTP to a fate of finding and promoting the issue-of-the-year, all without creating any lasting positive effects.

You, and WTP, just cannot be effective and create lasting, useful results by scattering your former focus all over the map on a host of unrelated-on-the-surface issues - which can only be tangentially connected at a level or two below the surface. Stick to your knitting !!  Do what WTP has done best and most effectively. Do what nobody else is doing, and is probably doing better that WTP could anyway.

Yes, other issues are important, and are a piece of the puzzle, but you cannot be all things to all people - if for no other reason - you haven't the resources, the staff, or the time.  For example, look at FIJA / AJI - they focus on one issue, Jury Rights.  Or the group that's working to pass laws around the states to allow the growing of industrial / non-marijuana hemp. Or the NRA or GOA... These didn't get to where they are by scattering themselves all over the issue landscape, but by tight focus, and sustained effort on that tight focus.  Learn from their example, and learn from past mistakes !

WTP has already suffered much from the many fiascoes, missteps, blunders, project starts-and-stops over recent years ~ Stop running from here to there on the issue of the month program. Find out what you do best / what the most effective and likely message-effort is or has been, and Stick to your Knitting !! 

Pulling for WTP - Greg
 

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:28 PM

To: bob@givemeliberty.org

Subject: What does foreign aid or Israel-Palestine have to with tax

honesty movement? 

After reading through the WeThePeople site and the related links to the ADL site, I suppose I can understand your antipathy to Jewish organizations. It angered me too that the ADL would attack tax protest groups that have nothing to do with Jews or Israel, and have never attacked Jews. Sometimes the ADL seems more like a left wing political organization than a Jewish protective organization. 

The total foreign aid spending in the 2006 budget was $31.27 billion. The total federal budget for 2006 was $3,047.773 billion or $ 3.047773  trillion. Therefore, total foreign aid was about 1% of the federal budget. (See http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy06/sheets/25_13.xls) So why focus on foreign aid of any sort (including aid to Israel) when it is such a small proportion of the federal budget? 

In 2005, Israel got about $5 billion from the U.S. gov and that is the second most money received by any country, with Iraq receiving $10 billion -- http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/07s1279.xls.

Any number of nations, including Arab nations like Egypt, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., etc., etc., none of which are free nations, received billions of dollars as well. Why focus on Israel specifically? Say $7 billion (increasing it to adjust for2006) aid to Israel out of approximately $3000 billion total U.S. budget is about 0.24% of the total federal budget, a minuscule percentage. 

As far as a tax issue, foreign aid in general, and aid to Israel specifically, pale in consideration to virtually all other federal budget issues. The only conceivable reason that you, a tax honesty advocate, would focus on aid to Israel, specifically, could only be anti-Jewish bias. The numbers don't lie. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Now I oppose ALL foreign aid of any type, including aid to Israel. But at least I keep it in perspective. I suggest you do the same. 

Bruce

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:45 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: RE: Your Recent Article Slamming Israel

I have followed your movement for some time and agree with your views about the IRS and the federal income tax but when you begin saying Israel is to blame for the tensions in the Middle East I have to draw a line in the sand. I read all of your so-called "Isn't it true about the Bible" mumbo jumbo. Maybe you should take a look at God's word a little more closely as I have. You will realize that you are absolutely incorrect.

 Are you one of the delusional bunch that is too blind to see what's happening in this country every time we attempt to assist in the division of Israel's God given lands? Are you one of those "Replacement Theology" folks that accepts that God's Church of Christians has replaced Israel as God's chosen people? You might want to re-evaluate your thinking before it's too late. Bless and pray for the peace of Israel and you will be blessed.

 When was the last time you saw Israel launch a rocket into a heavily poulated area of Palestinians? Terrosist groups in the Middle East are made up of muslims that are hell-bent on seeing Israel destroyed. They have made it abundantly clear that they can't govern themselves. Look at the aftermath of the removal of Jewish settlements from the Gaza Strip. Even when Israel was at war with hezbollah in Lebanon last year they would drop leaflets in civilian areas warning them to leave before launching an attack.

 You are welcome to continue with your free speech rights but God help you if you continue saying what you're saying. I'll pray for God to open your mind to the "TRUTH".

 Todd

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:14 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Israel

Dear Bob,    

       For many years I have been in full support of your efforts concerning the government of the United States running over our rights as American citizens. I have agreed 100% with all you have said. However; I must say that when I received your latest report that speaks against our support for Israel, it caused me to be very troubled by your view.

       Maybe it does appear that America has given all of the support to Israel that you mentioned. But, I believe that is in keeping with what the bible teaches us to do. God said that he would bless those that bless Israel and he would curse those that curse Israel. I also believe that is why America has been the nation it has been all these years. However; our nation is quickly eroding in every way. If you don’t believe in the bible then none of this will matter to you. But if you do believe then maybe even you will agree with me, that the sick and diseased government system that is ruling us in America today is a direct result of a nation that has turned it’s back on God. Man thinks he is so smart. Even smarter than God himself. But any fool can see that the more we have taken God out of our government, the sicker we have become as a nation.

       Having watched the direction the anti God government of the United States has taken our country, I would rather trust in the blind faith of the Almighty God and his word than to follow mans wisdom.

       I am not a Jew. I’m just a southern born man that believes there is someone greater than mortal man. I choose to believe his promise to bless me if I bless Israel.

       If you really believe what your last report is advocating, then I am most disappointed to know that and must sadly request that you remove me from your mailing list. 

For God, America and Israel. 

David  

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:44 PM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Remove

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:05 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Israel (The apple of Gods eye)

Dear Bob,
I have been a supporter of yours for a long time and forwarded you web site to everyone I know. I agree 100% in the Constitution and protecting America based on the Constitution, I feel that the lines become blurred in regards to Politics abroad especially when you single out Israel, and to insinuate that Israel is the cause of the "War on Terror" is ignorance gone to seed. Please remove me from your mailing list and may God open your eyes.

Thomas

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:52 AM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Re: Israel Lobby & U.S. Foreign Policy

What does your Anti-Israel (Jewish) article have to do with your ongoing fight to expose the corruption and un-constitutional status of the Federal Reserve Banking System, IRS and personal Income Tax???

 Stick to your original fight and do not dilute your efforts with negative politics which, for me, is a "red flag" of another "hidden agenda".

 Thank you.

 Harold  

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:07 AM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject:

God says that he will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel.

The entire book of Joshua is about God guiding the Jews through the conquering of Canaan. Subjugating some and chasing some off, but executing most of the inhabitants by the command of God.

This time, the Jews just wanted less than 10% of The Promised Land (to Abraham) and even the United Nations signed off on it (though they expected the Jews to be crushed soon thereafter).  The land was sad and blighted at this time not being cared for or developed by the peoples that resided there.

Soon thereafter, they were attacked from all sides by forces that outnumbered them at least 4 to 1.  If God had not wanted them there, this would have been the time to push them out.  Against all odds, the Jew were victorious.  The enemy had crumbled and scattered just like in Joshua's day.  God had put fear in their hearts, evidenced by the finding of perfectly good Russian tanks that not seen combat but were abandoned with their engines still running.  I would bet that you still require more evidence and miracles to convince you.

Two more wars followed. Each time the Jews were outnumbered and surrounded, yet they saw victory and took more land from the attackers to be used for buffers and bartering. If God wasn't ready for them to reoccupy Israel, these would have been good times to have them pushed out.  That must not have been the case.

Yes, Yahweh God is a god of love, peace, grace and forgiveness but never forget that He is a god of holiness and justice and full of wrath for those that ignore and oppose his will. He punished His People, the Jews, whenever they, or their leadership, turned away from him.  In the current age, God had to use Hitler to force the Jews to come back to their homeland. They were content in Europe and America and it was a hard hand that had to be used to make them flee back to Israel.  So, it cannot be said that God didn't want them in Israel, He forcibly made them return to the land.

Regardless of any mishaps and incidents that may have occurred between our two nations, I support the Jews in Israel wholeheartedly.  It is God's will. You may have a soft spot in your heart for the Muslims and terrorists and want to give them the land of the Jews but that is your own decision.  God will be keeping track.  

I keep checking the news to see when the next Jewish homicide attack happens.  I am still waiting for Jews to hijack an aircraft and maybe even fly it into a building.  I'm looking for the incidents where Jews have murdered people because they weren't Jewish or had converted from Judaism.  I haven't seen any beheadings of political captives in Israel.  All I have seen are a people that are constantly having to defend themselves from enemies and "friends" alike.  A people that are pressured into giving up more and more of their tiny country to appease their "friends" in their vain attempt to gain peace in their land with their enemies.  If we in the United States had to endure the same level of terror from a specific group of people, we'd be damned sure of doing something about.  Why don't we allow Israel the same privilege?

As far as using the war on terror as an excuse to create a police state, you are way behind.  The first attempt that congress made to impose an income tax after the War of Northern Aggression signaled the beginnings of the police state in the U.S.  The first laws restricting firearms ownership also expose the efforts of congress to create a police state.  The first laws on drug prohibition gave more power to the government to enforce the police state.  We've been in a police state for a long time.  The Constitution is the only thing that restricts its growth to a crawl.  

 
William  

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:49 AM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Israel and We the People

Dear Sirs;   

I am and I continue to be a supporter of our organization.  Please be aware that the entire notion that you have promulgated about the poor Palestinians is without merit.  They are not down trodden or oppressed by Israel.  Keep in mind that if you had studied the history of the area you would have been aware that when Britain partitioned the area that they called Palestine it was not a nation or political entity at all.  If you study the partitions you would realize that it was never intended that Israel would survive the granting of statehood.  Most of the Palestinians left on their own, believing that in a few hours or days that they would return and the Jews would be gone.  This didn’t happen.  

Then you stated that the ’67 war was a preemptive attack by Israel against its peaceful Arab neighbors that had only the best intentions for Israel.  The facts were that the Palmach and Haganah had uncovered a plot by ALL their Arab neighbors to attack and overrun Israel and thereby solve the Jewish issue.  There are far more details that could be presented that support the events as I have stated them.  If however you have a bias against Israel then you would ignore them also.   

It would appear to me that even without any formal treaty it behooves us to support the only Democratic republic in the area of the Middle East which was one of the prime directives of our founding fathers.  The Palestinians do not now have nor have they ever had a democratic governing body.  To say and imply that the only reason that Arabs want to destroy us is our support of Israel is again without merit.   They hate all democracies in the world.  Their world view is that all nations should be under Sharia law with Islam the only religion.  The poor Palestinians are not dedicated to making life better for their citizens just ending the existence of the Jewish state. 

 Regards,

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:37 AM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Qur'an supports Jew's right to the land of Israel

Dear Bob, 

            In that mine was one of the first letters of opposition to the trend of We The People to be involved with the question of Israel, I want to be able to answer those Questions for you that you submitted rather recently (my e-mail was down so it may have been posted before the rally in March 29-31).  I am a Fundamentalist Baptist whose mother, way before the birth of Israel in the 1940s, reasoned from scriptures that the prophesies could only be fulfilled if Israel was in the land at the appearing of Christ on Earth.  Very early on I have been confident that the gathering of Israel into a nation governing the land of Israel and the city of Jerusalem  was the infrastructure building work of God, as is the liberating of Iraq and eventually Babylon to eventually be used by the NWO or the United Nations to be the center of that demonic economical experiment we anticipate as that being for the Anti-Christ.  Ironically, it is George Bush being involved with a two nation approach for an Arab Palestine, thereby partitioning the land that concerns me.  Such a thing is actually condemned in the scriptures.  In that my throwing my lot with the We the People organization was based on by understanding of scriptures and the liberties that ought accrue for those people who love God and His scriptures, I am concerned that there is such a hue and cry of so-called patriots against Israel. 

            The cry should not be against Israel, but against our government’s usurpation into affairs better left to the people.  Divesting government of charity and educational usurpations of the responsibilities of the people not only would satisfy the bottoming principle mentioned by John Locke which would allow atheists and Christians to be able to live in peace with each other, or evolutionists and creationists, or Catholics, Baptists and other religions, but would get our government out of foreign policy charity when such actually is the power of our government to control the internal affairs of other countries who “benefit” from our largesse, funded by the stolen monies from the people of America, but whose benefices are laced with the poison of mandates, which, in the case of Israel, forbids them to actually defend themselves from the real enemies of America, the radical Muslims. 

            My wife is Filipina, and her sister is married to a Muslim from Malaysia.  Consequently I have precious nieces and nephews that I love who are trapped in that Muslim religion.  While the Arabs for Israel folk below desire liberty of conscience for all peoples, the radical Muslims have denied even the Arabs and others in that religion to change over in the event of conversions to Christianity. 

            I will defend my stance for the existence of Israel from the Bible, in that I am as much a Theologian as I am a Geologist, in a latter post to you for your information, but I thought this below was VERY interesting.  Please understand that my comments are not an attack on you, in that I hold you in extremely high respect, and you did try to get the perspectives of both sides, but even I was a bit blindsided by this to put together a timely rebuttal to the concept that we err in our support for Israel.  Please understand that I do not believe our government is pro-Israel.  Israel is, indeed, an impediment for our government’s desire to curry favor with the oil-rich nations which supply the fuel for our lifestyles.  But the true protection of America is in the God who is currently doing a work in Israel to bring the people back to the land for judgment and eventual salvation.  Christianity is, indeed, the only real game in town, but we are nearing the latter days that even the Qur’an below acknowledges, and when the Great Imam of Iran’s Prime Minister comes on the scene seven years before the judgment (exactly the time when the expected Anti-Christ should appear) and this great deceiver delivers a non-militarized peace treaty with Israel and requests all the Arabs to leave the lands, mentioned in the Qur’an below, the Arabs will with honor submit to that request from their form of Messiah, and the West will assist them by moving the Palestinian peoples and displaced Syrians (up to the southern portion of the Euphrates north of Israel) to some place to the west of Israel.   

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:17 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Question about lawsuit.

Dear Bob, When will the page online be ready to list what is happening to us now partially I believe as a result of the suit.  My husbands retirement Navy and Social Security has been levied and now we are being forced to get legal council to protect our other properties. Is there any help for us now?   God Bless [signed]   Also, I am a Christian and fully support We the People. However, let me say that I believe due to scriptural warnings, we need to leave the Israeli situation out of what we are doing if we want the Lords blessing in this battle. We already have enough wrongdoing by our elected officials  without adding this. I know that the government in Israel is just as bad as ours but Israel is the apple of Gods eye and he will judge all of them himself.   I am praying for all of We the People. Elaine

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 6:16 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Israel, etc.

I said pretty much all I had to say in my first response to your new agenda. I will now cease to be a supporter, including monetarily.  

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:56 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Israel Lobby & U.S. Foreign Policy: Apartheid and Manipulation

Dear Bob,

Up until recently I figured you for a reasonably intelligent man. But on the issues of Israel…. You and I have to part our ways.  

I take it that you don’t read the scriptures much…How can you have such an anti-Semitic attitude?. Have you ever known of a race to be almost entirely decimated and what was left scattered to the four winds… only to come back to the very land that was given to them 2000 years later… speaking the same language as when they were almost destroyed…. What race or nation has ever done that? I has never happened in all of History. Do you think that was coincidental?  

What race of people are the scriptures focused on from Adam to Jesus? Palestinians? What lands did YHWH give Israel? Israel was given all of the land from the Nile to the Euphrates… which part of that did YHWH give to the Palestinians? None! At what point does YHWH make Palestinians and Islamics His Bride? Never! The land of Israel is for His Bride Israel…. It was promised to her forever. Now if you can’t count on YHWH to keep His promises, everyone has a HUGE problem 

Palestinians has never been a race or had a land of their own… they are a mixed breed of several of the pagan Canaanite cultures, but were mostly nomadic… because they had no agricultural skills and were forced to move from region to region to find vegetation and water.  

Israel flourished from the time the Israelites left the Wilderness and crossed the Jordan until 70 CE (the Roman Destruction of Israel). After Israel was destroyed the Land returned to desert condition. Why? Because the so called Palestinians did not have a clue how to care for it or nurture it and because YHWH did not give the land to them. Is it a coincidence that Israel again began to flourish, when the people it was promised to came to settle it and when it became a nation in 1948 CE?. By the way 1948 BCE was when Abraham was born. Ishmael (Islam/Palestinians) inherited NOTHING from Abraham… only Isaac inherited.…. Another coincident?  You decide. I If America ever did  anything intelligent in the last 100 years… it was supporting YHWH’s bride… Israel. 

Be careful!... When you support Israel’s enemies… it pretty much automatically qualifies you to be an enemy of YHWH. 

Unfortunately America is playing a very dangerous game of supporting both Israel and her enemies right now. 

Another note… The War on Terror is an invention of the International Bankers to stir up profits for themselves…. They even staged the destruction of the WTC to get the war ball rolling. Of course the war on Terror is an instrument to accomplish many of their other power goals too. It has nothing to do with Israel as you have so mistakenly assumed.

But, you do have the freedom and choice to believe it was Islamics and not remote control planes that crashed into WTC and Pennsylvania. You can also choose to believe that Jet fuel can create enough heat to melt steel and concrete even if it is physically impossible. You can choose to believe that our own government did not send demolition experts in a couple weeks prior to 9/11 to strategically set demolition incendiaries in the areas that were conveniently evacuated at the very same time  while mysterious repairs and testing were being performed

You can choose to continue to blame Israel wrongly to satisfy your obvious and blatant bigotry. You also have the choice to learn the truth if you desire to.

Regards,

Steve

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:31 PM
To: bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: RE: [We The People] Israel Lobby & U.S. Foreign Policy: Apartheid and Manipulati

Bob, I feel exactly the same exactly as what this person wrote. First, let me say what an absolutely awesome job you and your co-hearts are doing to stem the tide of our eroding constitution and our rights. Without your efforts I am afraid we would probably have lost the fight, already. I have been an avid fan and supporter for some time now. However, I am a bible believing conservative and, as a result, am a stanch supporter of Israel. I believe that if we failed to help Israel and it's people via thier government and charity, then our nation is doomed. As the bible says, "I will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel." Therefore, I cannot and will not back you in this particular effort - ever. I would ask that you reconsider your position on this mater and see if you can be more specific in your quest to limit US support for Israel. I understand that there is always corruption in any government and Israel is probably no exception. However, if we cease to stand with Israel, then I feel there is little hope for America. When evil is rampant we must stand and support the light of Israel, even if darkness continues to rub it's shoulders in the same street, house, synagogue, or government building.  

Blessings,

Donny  

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:49 PM

To: info@givemeliberty.org

Subject: Foreign Policy endeavors

I am very concerned that you have chosen to water down you efforts and alienate a potentially large number of your supporters by attacking the "Israel Lobby" and any and all support for the nation of Israel.  You present a very one sided analysis of the issue and seem to indicate you would stand by and watch a second holocaust as Israel is wiped out. 

Certainly there are problems with corruption in the state of Israel - as exist in every country on this planet.  And the lobby that supports that country is not the only one in existence - there are many lobbies that should be looked at - from other countries and from certain industries - the Big Pharma and the Big Oil lobbies come to mind first.   Further the idea that the world of Islam is only attacking us because of our support for Israel ignores more recent events that gave rise to Al Queda - the US aggression in Somalia. But this is a divisive tangent which will destroy your central effort - the right to petition and stopping the monstrosity called the IRS.  

There are many areas where our government is way off the constitutionaltrack, we can resolve these later as we get the central issues undercontrol.  A far more important issue which has an immediate negative effect on the sovereignty of this nation is the unconstitutional so called "free trade agreements" (NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.) which lay the groundwork for the North American Union and the end of Constitutional governance.  Why bother with one aspect of foreign policy when we are very close to losing the United States of America to global governance? 

Get your focus back to where it belongs.  If you feel you really need to stop the Israel Lobby, start a separate movement, don't dilute this one. 

- George

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:11 PM
To: info@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Comment

Dear Bob,
  I, like others, find myself staring at an immediate "red flag" when it comes to opposing Israel in general. Mostly, I've held that the scripture "I will bless him that blesses thee, and curse him who curses thee" has accounted for the sustained blessings of our otherwise corrupt nation, since we have generally become Israel's only ally.
  I would think twice before going out of my way to encourage people, especially patriots, to abandon our support for Israel.

Sincerely,
Tom

 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:06 PM
To: Bob@givemeliberty.org
Subject: Jefferson on the Koran

Bob, On the Isreal/Palestinian issue please read the below commentary and I encourage you to look at History International "The Sahara." It covers about a 1000 years of North African history including the Muslim invasion that has lasted until today. Religion transcends national borders in the minds of men.

 Source unknown.

Important History Reminder

What Thomas Jefferson Learned From The Muslim Book of Jihad

Democrat Keith Ellison is now officially the first Muslim United
States congressman. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the
Quran, the Muslim book of jihad and pledged his allegiance to the
United States during his ceremonial swearing-in.

Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's swearing-in photo opportunity drew
more media than they had ever seen in the history of the U.S. House.
Ellison represents the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota.

The Quran Ellison used was no ordinary book. It once belonged to
Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of
America's founding fathers. Ellison borrowed it from the Rare Book
Section of the Library of Congress. It was one of the 6,500 Jefferson
books archived in the library.

Ellison, who was born in Detroit and converted to Islam while in
college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed
that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be
gleaned from many sources.

There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom
could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned
the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because
he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli.

Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a prop illuminates a subject
once well-known in the history of the United States, but, which
today, is mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many
centuries enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thousands of
Christian Europeans and Americans in the Islamic "Barbary" states.

Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim pirates cruised the African
and Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing slaves.

The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal
villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders
to kill off as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as
possible so the preferred "booty" of only young women and children
could be collected.

Young non-Muslim women were targeted because of their value as
concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual
interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four
wives at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes
allow.

Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to create
eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the
Middle East. Muslim slave traders created "eunuch stations" along
major African slave routes so the necessary surgery could be
performed. It was estimated that only a small number of the boys
subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.

When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776,
American merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no American
Navy for protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian
crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of
the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.

Because American commerce in the Mediterranean was being destroyed by
the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate
treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special
commission consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin
Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.

Lacking the ability to protect its merchant ships in the
Mediterranean, the new America government tried to appease the Muslim
slavers by agreeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve
seized American ships and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors.

Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get
American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again. Jefferson was
opposed. He believed there would be no end to the demands for tribute
and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a
league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy.

In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and
Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with
Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to
Britain.

The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress'
vote to appease.

During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why
Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which
they had no previous contacts.

In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future
presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had
answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that
it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have
acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right
and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to
make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every
Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to
Paradise."

For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims
millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the
return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute
amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in
1800.

Not long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he
dispatched a group of frigates to defend American interests in the
Mediterranean, and informed Congress.

Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense but
not one cent for tribute," Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying
American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim
Barbary Coast.

The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS
Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into
Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all
American slaves.

During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States,
crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on
shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery
and piracy.

Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine
Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of
Tripoli, we will fight our country's battles on the land as on the
sea."

It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total
defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates.

Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put
and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson.
He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy
from their own Muslim book of jihad..

 [signed]